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What an atrocious quote. It sounds like philosophy from Fishhead or something.

(Actually I could see a context where it makes sense but in the context of this discussion ---> Fishhead)



All that matters to a secure person with the quality of self-honesty is what you know. Other people can project and misperceive and even lie.

I can lie too, but the problem is, I will know.



But if it does something for you to label me a gambler or any of the other things I listed, help yourself.
 
Well it's not that the quote is atrocious. There is undeniably a lot of truth in it. Many many people are like that.



Matty
Man is profoundly dependent on the reflection of himself in another man's soul, be it even the soul of an idiot.
― Witold Gombrowicz, Ferdydurke
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The question is the context. You used it - or so it seemed to me in our own context - like it was a proper and inevitable truth (and therefore anyone judging and labeling you something is proof it is so).

But I wonder if he is actually working against you, lamenting the sad philosophical state of Man. Like the line after the quote would be . . . and people really need to cut that shit out for their own good.



I would suspect that's the case. It is such a standard bit of philosophy. I have discussed it for decades in groups with thousands of people (of all levels of sociability), where we talk about what works and doesn't work towards happiness and peace.

What I have observed are results that are remarkably close to unanimous: best to work towards increased self-awareness and self-honesty and away from dependance on the opinions of others.

That quote is the enemy. A lot of people are there right now, no question. But people who have identified it as the enemy - and have been fighting it for as long as I have, really do progress away from it.



In other words, the mere fact that I am being judged from the outside is not going to sway me. A good argument might - but this is such a trivial arbitrary discussion about where lines are drawn on abstract concepts that I don't see anywhere else to go with it.
 
Good stuff Muddy. Gombrowicz actually specialized in that line of thinking - he called it the "form". He did posit that to be an inevitable truth and he DID lament it, what with being the product of a secondary European culture (Poland) that doesn't possess nearly the same status as its neighbours, at least in the arts. (Adding insult to injury, he lost the 1968 Nobel by one vote, to some Japanese dude.)

Muddy
best to work towards increased self-awareness and self-honesty and away from dependance on the opinions of others
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The quote isn't arguing against that at all. It says: try as you might, you're still being formed by the minds of others.

Dumbed down to its simplest expression - in the end, you are what people remember of you.
 
Yes. You're misinterpreting the quote yet again. "Dependent" as in "determined by", not "overly rely on".

e.g. Your Jeopardy fame is dependent on the Jeopardy people's assessment of what a proper Jeopardy contestant is.

I don't know if you see what I did there.
 
Matty
Yes. You're misinterpreting the quote yet again. "Dependent" as in "determined by", not "overly rely on".
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I'm sorry Matty but the quote says dependent. I didn't interpret anything. I used the exact word from the quote. I used dependent to mean dependent.

"Profoundly dependent."

Perhaps there are translation issues but the quote I have read here was clearly made after observing Fishhead.


Is this really your favorite author? Do you like Knut Hamsun?
 
If you wanna go that route - words have several meanings Muddy. You went the "reliant" way where the author meant "contingent".

But sure, act tough all you want. You didn't interpret.

I don't read anyone who wears a monocle. That's where I draw the line.

Baboon.
 
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