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Because I know there will be one or two trolololololololol posts later in reference to Hanley:



Quote:
Baseball sources with knowledge of the club's thinking say that the Marlins aren't so much stripping the team for financial reasons as they're rearranging lots of furniture because the pieces don't fit.



Hanley was going to get $31 million the next 2 years. No thanks. Not for a .750 OPS guy who cuts his hand punching a locked room fan and then let's it get infected because he didn't finish his course of antibiotics.
 
would have rather had the Pirates take on his woes and $ then 2.4 years of Wandy...


the eovaldi guy might be ok.. the other one Mcgough is raw, he was originally drafted by the pirates a few years back (he is from th area) I know he was touching high 90's at times in HS...
 
Because I know there will be one or two trolololololololol posts later in reference to Hanley:



Quote:
Baseball sources with knowledge of the club's thinking say that the Marlins aren't so much stripping the team for financial reasons as they're rearranging lots of furniture because the pieces don't fit.



Hanley was going to get $31 million the next 2 years. No thanks. Not for a .750 OPS guy who cuts his hand punching a locked room fan and then let's it get infected because he didn't finish his course of antibiotics.

Hopefully TheLock will still post his feelings bout it? :dunno:
 
From Fangraphs:




On Monday, the Marlins traded Anibal Sanchez and Omar Infante to the Detroit Tigers for highly thought of pitching prospect Jacob Turner and a couple of other prospects, admitting that their grand experiment hadn’t produced a contender in 2012 as they had hoped. That deal didn’t generate much controversy, as Sanchez is a free agent at the end of the year and Infante is a role player without much name value.

Late last night, however, they agreed to ship Hanley Ramirez to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Nathan Eovaldi, and the internet exploded.

Sports Illustrated:

For all of their rebranding and relocating, the Miami Marlins have done the one thing their fan base is least likely to tolerate, which is to bring back memories of the fire sales that followed their World Series wins in 1997 and 2003. The Sanchez/Infante trade could have been seen as part of a short-term regrouping on Tuesday. On Wednesday, in light of the Ramirez trade, that is no longer possible.

The Sporting News:

Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria got his sweetheart ballpark deal and asked fans to fill it; in a span of about 36 hours, he disrespectfully chased them away because he didn’t get immediate satisfaction on the field. And according to at least two sources, other teams’ front offices are looking down on this latest Marlins fire sale.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

The ever-fraudulent Florida Marlins are holding another fire sale. Their bold quest for another World Series championship barely made it past the All-Star Game.

Fraudulent. Disrespectful. Not possible that this is a baseball decision. It’s fire sale pandemonium, and the outrage meter is turned up extra high. And yet, it may all very well be completely wrong.

What the Marlins have done in the past three days is trade two months of a pitcher they probably weren’t going to re-sign, a year and a half of an average second baseman, and an overpaid underachiever who most teams wouldn’t have even claimed on waivers. As Knobler notes, the Marlins were willing to pick up half of Ramirez’s salary to trade him to Oakland, and Billy Beane was hesitant to even pull the trigger at that price. This wasn’t so much a fire sale as it was an inventory closeout of unwanted goods.

Yes, the Marlins have a bad history of tearing down their rosters. After they won the World Series in 1997, they traded away Kevin Brown, Al Leiter, Robb Nen, Moises Alou, Devon White, and Jeff Conine before the season began, and then shipped off Gary Sheffield, Charles Johnson, and Bobby Bonilla six weeks into the season. That was a fire sale that turned a team that went 92-70 into a team that went 54-108. The team traded away nine of their highest profile players and slashed their payroll down from $50 million down to $15 million, coming in ahead of only the Pirates and Expos in total spending that year.

Over the next five years, the Marlins would build back up their farm system and, in 2003, found themselves as something of a surprise contender. On the backs of 21-year-old Dontrelle Willis, 23-year-old Josh Beckett, and 20-year-old Miguel Cabrera, an extremely young team snagged the wild card and ended up winning the World Series. Once again, the Marlins celebrated their championship by going cheap, though didn’t do anything near as extreme as the 1997 offseason. Ivan Rodriguez left as a free agent, Derrek Lee was traded to the Cubs, Juan Encarnacion was traded to the Dodgers, and Mark Redman was traded to the A’s.

But, those weren’t catastrophic moves that doomed the franchise. Redman was replaced by a returning A.J. Burnett, who actually upgraded the rotation. Choi actually posted an .882 OPS in 2004, essentially matching the .888 OPS that Lee put up the year before. Encarnacion’s job was given to Cabrera, which was an obvious improvement. They couldn’t replace Pudge behind the plate, but he got a 4 year, $40 million deal from the Tigers to cover his age 32-35 season and then took a huge step back offensively after the first year of the deal. Not signing a catcher headed into his decline phase certainly isn’t the same thing as a fire sale.

The 2004 Marlins didn’t get torn apart, nor did they collapse into the worst team in baseball. Their opening day payroll shrunk from $49 million to $42 million and they went from 91 wins to 83 wins. Despite what you may read this morning, the Marlins don’t have a history of selling off all their good players as soon as they get what they want. They did that once — 15 years ago — and that was under previous owner Wayne Huizenga.

I get that Jeffrey Loria is easy to hate. How he handled the Expos was awful, he’s done a lot of slimey things as the owner of the Marlins, and yes, he just spent a long time convincing the city of Miami to build him a publicly financed stadium that has greatly increased attendance, and in turn, his revenues. I have no interest in defending Jeffrey Loria from any of the valid criticisms that are leveled at him. However, the reality is that he wasn’t in charge of the team in 1997, and the off-season of 2003-2004 wasn’t a “fire sale”.

And neither does what they’re doing now. Hanley Ramirez hasn’t hit in two years, his transition to third base hasn’t gone very well, and he’s due $31.5 million over the next two seasons. Trading him now is no different than what the Arizona Diamondbacks did by making Justin Upton available in trade, and no one was calling that a fire sale just three months into the defense of their 2011 NL West title. In reality, underperforming teams that aren’t in the playoff race trade expensive underachievers and pending free agents every year. It’s not fraud, it’s baseball.

If the team trades Josh Johnson in the next week, I’m sure that will just be seen as more evidence that the Marlins are up to their old tricks. But, with Cole Hamels off the market, there’s a strong demand for premium pitching, and the Marlins will likely get a very strong return for the last year and a half of team control they have over Johnson. And, given Johnson’s history of health problems, his declining velocity and strikeout rates, and the team’s recent acquisitions of two good young starting pitching prospects, now is probably the perfect time to move Johnson for value.

Whether it can be interpreted other ways or not, these trades make baseball sense. You can view them through the lens of “Evil Jeffrey Loria Screwing Over His Fans Again” if you want, but I don’t think the facts really support that kind of conclusion.

If the Marlins don’t spend any of the money they just saved by getting rid of Hanley Ramirez this winter, they don’t extend Giancarlo Stanton, and they turn back into a low-payroll team that lives off revenue sharing, the should absolutely be crucified for that. But they haven’t done that yet, and it’s not fair to assume that is the plan simply because that was Huizenga’s plan 15 years ago.

If the Marlins do reinvest Hanley’s money into upgrading other parts of the roster, and they do get a good return for Josh Johnson before he breaks down again, there’s a pretty good chance that the 2013 Marlins will be better than the 2012 version. I understand why you might not think Loria deserves the benefit of the doubt, but a rush to judgement isn’t any better.
 
I don't think you understand my stance on the trades, Plommer.

*or you skimmed the article

I agree with your stance on the trades. I also think there is a major disconnect with Marlin fans and ownership. How Loria does business is why Pujols wouldn't sign with Miami. It also wouldn't surprise me if they fire Guillen at the end of the year and replace with a much cheaper manager.

Two interesting articles on the Marlins today- Joe Sheehan and Forbes:

The Joe Sheehan Newsletter
Vol. IV, No. 56
July 25, 2012


In 1997, the Florida Marlins won the World Series. Before the team could leverage that into ticket sales, parking and concession revenue, goodwill and all the other things that accrue to a World Champion, owner Wayne Huizenga forced a fire sale in which he dealt off the entire starting outfleld, the first baseman, two starting pitchers and the closer. The sale was predicated on a lie: that the team had lost money and needed a new taxpayer-funded ballpark to be successful. Subsequent research by Andrew Zimbalist proved that in fact, Huizenga had profited from the team's success, but that the profits had flowed to the team's ballpark -- also owned by Huizenga -- rather than the team. It was the first visible example of how common ownership of teams and their associated entities could enable owners to make money while making their baseball teams seem like financial losers.


Six years later, under new owner Jeffrey Loria, the Florida Marlins once again won the World Series. Before the team could leverage that into ticket sales, parking and concession revenue, goodwill and all the other things that accrue to a World Champion, Loria forced a fire sale, though one not quite as dramatic as the '98 sale. While the sale did not come with the accounting shenanigans of the Huizenga sell-off, it was intended to underline the point that Loria wanted a taxpayer-funded ballpark for his team, and would refuse to raise his payroll even in the wake of a championship. Burnt for the second time in six years, South Florida would subsequently reject the Marlins, eventually turning their games into the worst-attended MLB contests since late-1970s Mets games.


Let's be very clear: the Marlins had done this to themselves. In their first five seasons, they hadn't fallen below tenth in the 14-team National League in attendance. They were fifth twice, once as an expansion team in 1993, and once when they won in 1997. After the fire sale, the Marlins never finished above 13th in the NL in attendance, and rated that highly only in that first post-title season of 1998. From 1999 through 2011, the Marlins finished last or next-to-last in the NL in attendance in every season except one: 2004, when in the year after a title they moved up to 14th. Loria, backed by MLB and its extensive experience in taxpayer shakedowns, insisted the Marlins' failure to bring people to the park was due to the unattractiveness of the park. History shows that the Marlins' failure to bring people to the park is due to what happened in the wake of 1997. The franchise has never recovered from Wayne Huizenga's mendacity.


Against this backdrop, the Marlins' threats worked in the way they always seem to: the politicians circumvented the citizenry and authorized a stadium deal without a public vote. In 2009, Miami City and Miami-Dade County commissioners approved a play for a $525 million stadium that would be financed almost wholly by public money. A team whose attendance, in a large media market, was embarrassing, and which had twice torn apart championship rosters in what can only be described as tantrums, accompanying one with a $43 million lie, had gotten what it wanted: a taxpayer-funded ATM.


With a license to print money in hand, Loria spent, but just a little bit. Remember that last winter, the team was less than a year removed from being openly scolded by the MLBPA for being a revenue-sharing recipient but not spending that money on major-league players. A year prior to that, the team had responded to a first round of criticism by signing Josh Johnson to a heavily-backloaded four-year contract. The Marlins, as ever, were spending money only under duress. So when Loria went out and signed Heath Bell to a three-year deal, and Mark Buehrle to a four-year deal and Jose Reyes to a six-year deal, it was hard to not notice one common theme: the contracts were all heavily backloaded. Loria was agreeing to contracts worth $191 million in total, but he wasn't making commitments, adding just $22 million to the 2012 payroll and leaving the rest to the future. He was raising the 2012 payroll figure for revenue-sharing purposes (a number based on average annual value), but he wasn't raising the 2012 payroll substantially.


The Marlins had done this before. As I wrote in the offseason, the Marlins under both Huizenga and Loria had signed free agents and subsequently traded them, garnering the positive publicity of the press conference and then discarding most of the financial obligation. With the new stadium, however, things were supposed to be different. The Marlins had spent 15 years insisting that that ownership or bad baseball decisions weren't the problem, but that it was that they had to play in a football stadium in a bad location.


The 2012 Miami Marlins, playing in Marlins Park, so new that there's still bubble wrap over some sections, are 12th in the National League in attendance. Not four months into the park's active life, the Marlins have once again authorized a fire sale. On Monday, the team traded its starting second baseman and #2 starter. Last night, under cover of darkness, it traded its starting third baseman -- the face of the franchise for the last six years. The deals save the Marlins approximately $10 million in 2012 and get the team out from under $31.5 million owed to Hanley Ramirez in 2013 and 2014. Rumors persist that the team is going to trade Johnson, Bell and anyone else making more than $4.75 an hour…having banked the season-ticket money and four months of game-day revenues.


Isn't it time to call a spade a spade? The Marlins ruined their relationship with the city of Miami in the '97-'98 offseason, and they did so with the implicit blessing of Major League Baseball. They won a championship despite themselves six years later and did the same thing, with the implicit blessing of Major League Baseball. In 2008, MLB president and COO Bob DuPuy went to Miami -- which had been among the worst markets for baseball over the previous decade -- and threatened the city with the loss of its team if it did not hand over the keys to the vault. Only when the MLBPA pointed out that recent Marlins' payrolls barely exceeded the revenue-sharing money they received did MLB exert some influence on the business practices of the team.


I'm perfectly willing to blame Jeffrey Loria, and Wayne Huizenga before him, for what has happened and is happening in Miami. Huizenga lied and Loria stopped short it, all while severing the connection between the team and the community, stripping the relationship to its core components: "you give us money and shut the **** up about it." When you take a step back, though, what has happened in Miami is the natural end to 20 years of MLB's relationship with cities in the United States and Canada. Under Bud Selig, MLB has fundamentally changed the relationship from "team and city" to "franchise and revenue sources". It's an incredibly cynical approach and one that has, among other effects, damaged the way fans and players relate, because the players are the accessible face of the process and MLB has done a remarkable job convincing fans that the players are the reason their beer costs $9.


What has happened in Miami is no different than what happened in San Diego, what happened in Milwaukee, what happened in Seattle, what happened twice in New York. MLB put its game plan into place to get politicians to sign over tax revenue -- often by increasingly usurious taxes on visitors, the easiest kind to sell, but sometimes on sales taxes tapping the whole community -- to finance a ballpark from which the team would keep the revenue. The details vary, but when you do this enough times, when you tell a community that it's only as relevant as the tax dollars it will give you, you become little more than a guy with a gun and a mask. Eventually, someone comes along who plays the game with even more viciousness than you do, with even less concern for how things look, with no regard for the endgame, and takes your plan that one step further and shoots the hostage.


MLB created Jeffrey Loria. MLB created this latest fire sale by not stopping the first two. MLB set all of this in motion by turning its business model from putting winning teams on the field and making money to turning the United States upside down and shaking money out of it. Loria isn't an anomaly. He's the natural evolution of the modern MLB owner.


We're not done yet, you know. What is a new ballpark, to Bud Selig, but a moment before you need another new ballpark? The A's situation has to be rectified, and then the MLB will turn to the City and County of Los Angeles for a billion dollars so that the Dodgers' new owners can justify their investment, and maybe when that happens, the Angels notice that despite the renovations, they're now playing in the oldest non-classic ballpark in the majors, and soon after that, well, the Skydome and US Cellular and Camden Yards will all be turning 30, and my god, how can you play 81 games a year in a ballpark that old?


When does it end? I don't know, but every city that's going to find itself at the point of Bud Selig's bayonet in the next few years should take a good, hard look at the 2012 Marlins and understand that their money buys them absolutely nothing. To look at Anibal Sanchez in a Tigers uniform, and Hanley Ramirez in Dodger blue, is to realize that the promise of exchanging taxpayer dollars for a watchable baseball team has always been a lie.
 
The Forbes article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2012/07/25/miami-marlins-drawing-fewest-fans-at-a-first-year-ballpark-in-over-a-decade/

Miami Marlins Drawing Fewest Fans At A First-Year Ballpark In Three Decades

The Miami Marlins’ 2012 reinvention – new name, new uniforms, new ballpark, new players, and a very entertaining new manager – has the club on course to set a modern record.

A record for lowest attendance for the first year of a new ballpark in the 21st century.

Miami’s trade of Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers – a deal that, given the paucity of talent the team got in return was clearly aimed at offloading the remaining $38 million on the third baseman’s contract – is the clearest sign yet that a new ballpark was never going to cure what ails the South Florida baseball market.

The Ramirez deal evokes memories of past frustrations Marlins fans endured when they watched the team bid adieu to talented players like A.J. Burnett, Miguel Cabrera , Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, presumably because the club’s outdated ballpark, Sun Life Stadium, wasn’t generating enough revenue to keep them. Fans stayed away in droves – why get excited about up and coming players when you know they won’t be staying long?

A new $600 million ballpark, financed mostly with public money, was supposed to change all that. It hasn’t, which is why the Ramirez deal isn’t particularly stunning, unfortunately. The Marlins are on pace to draw 2.2 million fans this season, a nice percentage increase from last year’s paltry 1.5 million but still a figure that would distinguish them as the worst-drawing club at a new ballpark since the start of the modern buiding era that kicked off with Chicago‘s new Comiskey Park and Baltimore‘s Camden Yards in the early 1990s.

The last club to draw less over a full season: the 1982 Minnesota Twins, who got under a million when they moved into the Metrodome ( the 1994 Cleveland Indians,who moved into Jacobs Field in a strike-shortened year, and the 1999 Seattle Mariners, who opened Safeco Field in mid-season, drew less than the Marlins in those partial years).

All this despite the fact that the Marlins play in MLB’s eighth-largest market (fourth-largest among one-team towns). And with the team now going nowhere and dumping Ramirez, the final tally will probably be less.

Teams opening new parks generally expect better. Six franchises (Giants, Phillies, Twins, Padres, Yankees and Mets) eclipsed the 3 million mark in attendance the year each opened a new yard. All of them realized major gains from the prior year except for the Mets and Yankees. There’s a reason for the New York clubs being exceptions – both had drawn over 4 million during strong 2008 seasons in their old stadiums, and both built new business plans around lower capacity and higher prices for 2009 (a plan that worked out better for the Yankees, as the Mets quickly crashed on the field and watched Bernie Madoff drain their financial reserves).

Other clubs that came up short of 3 million, nearly all of which play in markets smaller than Miami, still outdid the Marlins projected total. The Milwaukee Brewers drew 2.8 million fans when they opened Miller Park in 2001, up from 1.5 million at Country Stadium the previous year. The Pittsburgh Pirates jumped to 2.4 million at PNC Park the same season, an improvement from 1.7 million at Three Rivers Stadium. The Cincinnati Reds (2003) and Washington Nationals (2008) drew 2.3 million fans when they opened – not great but still better than the 2012 Marlins, a club thought to have better prospects on the field in addition to a bigger market.

It may be time to admit that the market just isn’t making it. South Florida’s weather and plethora of recreation choices make baseball a tough sell. Median income is low. The Marlins’ park still lacks a naming rights sponsor – what does it say that no company stepped up to tap into the local excitement of the reinvented Marlins? Basically, that there’s little excitement. Meantime, the club’s television deal with Fox Sports Florida, which doesn’t expire until after the 2020 season, pays less than $20 million annually.

Ramirez, once the young prospect the Marlins got from the Red Sox for Lowell and Beckett in 2006, was supposed to be the one who stayed. But now he’s gone. Owner Jeff Loria might love to follow him, but he’s probably stuck where he is. Who’s going to tolerate turning a $600 million, publicly funded stadium into a white elephant after one season?
 
"What the Marlins have done in the past three days is trade two months of a pitcher they probably weren’t going to re-sign, a year and a half of an average second baseman, and an overpaid underachiever who most teams wouldn’t have even claimed on waivers. As Knobler notes, the Marlins were willing to pick up half of Ramirez’s salary to trade him to Oakland, and Billy Beane was hesitant to even pull the trigger at that price. This wasn’t so much a fire sale as it was an inventory closeout of unwanted goods."



LOL
 
I'm sure Hanley really wanted to play for that organization. Really motivating when, after years of MVP-type numbers and being the face of the club, they go out and sign another shortstop and force you to move over to third base.

You can spin it all you want. They've been playing Miami for years. The team has never been run by anyone but conmen. It's amazing how much you love and love to defend shitty products.
 
"What the Marlins have done in the past three days is trade two months of a pitcher they probably weren’t going to re-sign, a year and a half of an average second baseman, and an overpaid underachiever who most teams wouldn’t have even claimed on waivers. As Knobler notes, the Marlins were willing to pick up half of Ramirez’s salary to trade him to Oakland, and Billy Beane was hesitant to even pull the trigger at that price. This wasn’t so much a fire sale as it was an inventory closeout of unwanted goods."



LOL

It didn't have to be that way with HanRam. There was no need for a SS, yet they give big money to Reyes. Throwing big money at speed guys is a horrible move. Reyes has always been an injury risk. A Ramirez would have been a better signing than Reyes,and for fewer years.