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Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Western "leaders" are tripping over themselves in a rush to declare a vote of the people illegal and illegitimate. :lol:
It's been clear for a long time who the staunchest anti-democrats are. You'd think they'd have a little humility somewhere, but no
 
reno cool
Western "leaders" are tripping over themselves in a rush to declare a vote of the people illegal and illegitimate. :lol:
It's been clear for a long time who the staunchest anti-democrats are. You'd think they'd have a little humility somewhere, but no
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You left out Europe is tripping over themselves also, who have a bigger stake in this (security-wise). The election probably was somewhat shady but they agreed to it and that's what the people wanted, so the opposers do have to honor it. Does this mean Russia goes around taking whatever old territories it wants, that is the question.
 
reno cool
Western leaders = European and US.

I don't think Russia wants to take territories. But if it becomes the only way to keep order near its borders and prevent Western interests of stirring up trouble, then could be.
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Ok, was wondering. That area probably will be a constant source of conflict as all of the younger voters (<30) wanted to stay with the Ukraine. Keeps the foreign journalists busy.
 
Reno, the US has to oppose it. It you look at a red/blue of the past several presidental elections, there is an obvious varying of people's basic belief systems in the US. IMO, a country cannot exist with that big of a basic difference. And I don't mean religion. There are groups that believe the government should control almost everything and there are those that believe the polar opposite. So if the US supported another country's secession, they would then be faced with the south trying to leave again. I believe TX and OK have already passed legislation just in case, declaring themselves sovereign states and expect the south plus a few in the middle to join them.
 
Badnina
Reno, the US has to oppose it. It you look at a red/blue of the past several presidental elections, there is an obvious varying of people's basic belief systems in the US. IMO, a country cannot exist with that big of a basic difference. And I don't mean religion. There are groups that believe the government should control almost everything and there are those that believe the polar opposite. So if the US supported another country's secession, they would then be faced with the south trying to leave again. I believe TX and OK have already passed legislation just in case, declaring themselves sovereign states and expect the south plus a few in the middle to join them.
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The USA did support Kossovo seceding from Serbia. Bill Clinton bombed Serbia to make it work. But Obama is not going to bomb Russia to submission.
 
Sure the US leadership has to oppose it, because their strategy is to weaken and isolate Russia. Fragment Ukraine, indebt it to the IMF and make it free for corporate exploitation. Then perhaps do same to Russia. Similar stuff they do all over the world. That doesn't mean the US public should support this strategy.

Russia of course cannot allow this to happen. And so here we are. I'm surprised that Russia allowed expansion of NATO all the way to Poland and the Baltic. I guess it felt powerless to oppose it. But Putin is aware now that this is about Russia's survival.

Sure nobody's going to attack Russia head on. Supporting fringe, unhhappy elements overtaking of power and then selling out the country is the preferred method. You can always find people in a country who are unhappy with the status quo. Give them money, promise them whatever, and you can have an upheaval. A lot cheaper than invasion.

It's no accident that the West focuses on Putin. Present him as a looney tyrant. Get him overthrown, instill some yatz whose willing to sell out countries resources to the West. Mission accomplished.
 
Obama needs to wear one of these and he will have them shaking in their boots! :usa:

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When I listen to the Russian reps inc Putin speak they at least appear to say things right or wrong. Kerry and company speak in platitudes. How do the people put up with that :dunno:

To address Nina's point perhaps more directly. I don't believe US leadership is worried about setting a precedent for the southern states. I view the whole thing as a plan to establish a puppet govt in Ukraine and give it legitimacy and reach. But it is an interesting thought you bring up that I haven't considered. How close are the Southern states to revolting? I have no idea truthfully :dunno:
 
As a response to US sanctions targeting certain Russian and Ukrainian individuals, Russian deputy PM, Dmitry Rogozin tweeted:

Comrade @BarackObama, what should do those who have neither accounts nor property abroad? Or U didn't think about it?)

I think some prankster prepared the draft of this Act of the US President)
 
reno cool
When I listen to the Russian reps inc Putin speak they at least appear to say things right or wrong. Kerry and company speak in platitudes. How do the people put up with that :dunno:

To address Nina's point perhaps more directly. I don't believe US leadership is worried about setting a precedent for the southern states. I view the whole thing as a plan to establish a puppet govt in Ukraine and give it legitimacy and reach. But it is an interesting thought you bring up that I haven't considered. How close are the Southern states to revolting? I have no idea truthfully :dunno:
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All the OK and TX legislation really does is reassert the state's sovereignty under the 10th Amendment and declaring that the federal government should "cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers." Which has been a growing sentiment around the south.
 
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