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je suis charlie

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MonkeyF0cker
I'll stop playing the religion card as soon as hypocritical religions are gone.

Yes, there were instances in our history where bigotry prevailed over our normal, fair course of action. That doesn't make it right.

You don't actually know if even ONE of the refugees that would come here has ties to any terrorist organization. Just fears. Bigotry wins again.
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Chattanooga shooter was a refugee and had lived here since the 90's. Apparently he didn't assimilate well. Recent events in Paris also contradicts your last statement. As for your hypocritical statement, everyone is hypocritical at some point. That is a baseless accusation people toss out when they have nothing else to argue. I know you can do better than that. But you don't get to try and use my beliefs into bullying me to agree to something that I know in my heart is a wrong move.
 
Badnina
Chattanooga shooter was a refugee and had lived here since the 90's. Apparently he didn't assimilate well. Recent events in Paris also contradicts your last statement. As for your hypocritical statement, everyone is hypocritical at some point. That is a baseless accusation people toss out when they have nothing else to argue. I know you can do better than that. But you don't get to try and use my beliefs into bullying me to agree to something that I know in my heart is a wrong move.
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Umm. The Chattanooga shooter came here when he was six years old. He didn't assimilate? Huh? You think he remembered anything from his childhood but American society? So, you will cast aside all refugees and send them back into the depths of Hell because you can find one refugee that became a bad person? Wow. We allowed 20,000 Muslim refugees from Kosovo into our country. How many of THEM have committed an act of terror?

I can certainly point out hypocrisies in religion. That's not bullying. That's just stating the obvious. There are a lot of cosmetic Christians in this country. There are very few who actually do much of anything to help anyone but themselves.
 
MonkeyF0cker
Umm. The Chattanooga shooter came here when he was six years old. He didn't assimilate? Huh? You think he remembered anything from his childhood but American society? So, you will cast aside all refugees and send them back into the depths of Hell because you can find one refugee that became a bad person? Wow. We allowed 20,000 Muslim refugees from Kosovo into our country. How many of THEM have committed an act of terror?

I can certainly point out hypocrisies in religion. That's not bullying. That's just stating the obvious. There are a lot of cosmetic Christians in this country. There are very few who actually do much of anything to help anyone but themselves.
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Obviously his family did not assimilate fully otherwise there would be four Marines and one Naval officer having Thanksgiving with their families next week.

Here is what's hypocritical and kind of humorous. Christians are being berated and lectured about doing our "Christian duty" and "What Would Jesus Do" in regards to these refugees. Kind of funny, isn't it, that now we are allowed to talk openly about stuff like this. Normally, it's very anti-Christian sentiments. Do my Christian duty, but let's keep it out of schools. And no public displays. Let's see...the government has a "moral obligation" to these refugees but let's keep that separation of church and state. Now I'm a hypocrite when before I was supposed to keep it to myself so I didn't offend anyone or "preach" at them. You make it sound like Christians don't believe the refugees' lives are worth anything but get your collective panties in a wad when we oppose Planned Parenthood and their abortion factories. Then again, I don't remember any outrage when the Coptic Christians being slaughtered earlier this year? Why were they not rushed over here?

The majority of the time, most of you prefer that I (and people who believe as I do) keep our "mythical relationship with an imaginary creature" to myself. The only time you want to reference it, is to bash it, condemn it or use it in some twisted political scheme, which is what this issue is.

I'm done.
 
Badnina
Obviously his family did not assimilate fully otherwise there would be four Marines and one Naval officer having Thanksgiving with their families next week.
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In case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of born-in-America Americans lining up to go on shooting sprees, here. You can't pin one person's actions on them being a refugee.

Badnina
Here is what's hypocritical and kind of humorous. Christians are being berated and lectured about doing our "Christian duty" and "What Would Jesus Do" in regards to these refugees. Kind of funny, isn't it, that now we are allowed to talk openly about stuff like this. Normally, it's very anti-Christian sentiments. Do my Christian duty, but let's keep it out of schools. And no public displays. Let's see...the government has a "moral obligation" to these refugees but let's keep that separation of church and state. Now I'm a hypocrite when before I was supposed to keep it to myself so I didn't offend anyone or "preach" at them. You make it sound like Christians don't believe the refugees' lives are worth anything but get your collective panties in a wad when we oppose Planned Parenthood and their abortion factories. Then again, I don't remember any outrage when the Coptic Christians being slaughtered earlier this year? Why were they not rushed over here?

The majority of the time, most of you prefer that I (and people who believe as I do) keep our "mythical relationship with an imaginary creature" to myself. The only time you want to reference it, is to bash it, condemn it or use it in some twisted political scheme, which is what this issue is.
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Wow. It's impressive that you can try to act persecuted. Christianity is assumed in America. You can't go through a day without healthy dose of Christian sentiment from every direction. You'd be hard-pressed, anywhere, to be more free to profess your every Christian thought.

What you can't seem to wrap your head around is that you cross a line when you try to legislate others to conform to your religion. It's right there in the Constitution. That's what we get up in arms about.
 
Badnina
Obviously his family did not assimilate fully otherwise there would be four Marines and one Naval officer having Thanksgiving with their families next week.

Here is what's hypocritical and kind of humorous. Christians are being berated and lectured about doing our "Christian duty" and "What Would Jesus Do" in regards to these refugees. Kind of funny, isn't it, that now we are allowed to talk openly about stuff like this. Normally, it's very anti-Christian sentiments. Do my Christian duty, but let's keep it out of schools. And no public displays. Let's see...the government has a "moral obligation" to these refugees but let's keep that separation of church and state. Now I'm a hypocrite when before I was supposed to keep it to myself so I didn't offend anyone or "preach" at them. You make it sound like Christians don't believe the refugees' lives are worth anything but get your collective panties in a wad when we oppose Planned Parenthood and their abortion factories. Then again, I don't remember any outrage when the Coptic Christians being slaughtered earlier this year? Why were they not rushed over here?

The majority of the time, most of you prefer that I (and people who believe as I do) keep our "mythical relationship with an imaginary creature" to myself. The only time you want to reference it, is to bash it, condemn it or use it in some twisted political scheme, which is what this issue is.

I'm done.
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Oh, no. That's not how it goes. I get to hear about the "War on Christmas" because business owners and shareholders have decided to include other religions in the holiday season and not single out Christians by saying "Happy Holidays." However, when those same Christians get an opportunity to do some good (as their religion dictates), they use whatever excuse they can to run from its actual teachings. Morality goes well beyond the Christian religion. However, American Christians seems to confuse morality for baking a damn cake for some gay couple. They want to scream about the most useless novelties and victimize themselves, but when it actually comes to helping people - people whose lives are in the balance - where the Hell are they?
 
Mr. X, in regards to this issue, who is trying to legislate?

You both have very narrow-minded views when it comes to Christianity and the people who believe. You always have. I do not "preach" at you, never have and never will. It is more than a belief issue. It's a relationship but unless it's something you've experienced, you will never understand it. Years ago, I accepted all of you and your various beliefs and have never condemned, ridiculed or bashed them. Well not on here *wink*. You all cannot say the same. I remember one incident where a member here sent me a PM to apologize because he realized he crossed a line. Let's say I am wrong about the threat of people pouring into this country. That they won't further weaken our economy (you know that one that already has the lowest participation rate since the 70's), won't cost more money and put us further in debt for future generations to come, and it causes peace, love and tranquility to reign throughout the land. But what if I'm right? You cannot guarantee that I am wrong. That alone should put in place a halt. Then ask, why has this become such a divisive, political issue? That too should make one pause.

And that will be my last post in this thread. Feel free to ridicule me all you want. I shall continue to treat you with the same respect I always have. I've read the book. I know how it ends. I'm good.
 
The reason it has become such a political issue is because the people who claim to be moral don't exercise morality when they have the chance. They say they're worried about people being dependent on government subsidies (help) while the refugees learn the language and culture. Meanwhile, they have no problems sending the military halfway across the world at a much higher monetary cost and directly putting American lives in danger. They haven't even given peace with the refugees one single chance to succeed. Dead on arrival. There are no guarantees in life. How do you know that one of the refugees doesn't create a multi-billion dollar American company in the future if given the chance here? You choose to think negatively about them instead. That's certainly your right, but when Christianity becomes a path in life that consists of getting upset over not hearing "Merry Christmas" and denying prospective customers a cake - all while turning away people in dire need of help, I really think you need to ask yourself what your religion actually stands for.
 
MonkeyF0cker
I'll stop playing the religion card as soon as hypocritical religions are gone.

Yes, there were instances in our history where bigotry prevailed over our normal, fair course of action. That doesn't make it right.

You don't actually know if even ONE of the refugees that would come here has ties to any terrorist organization. Just fears. Bigotry wins again.
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If one were tied to a terror organization, wouldn't it be smart to blend in with innocent migrants? These are the same people who set up control centers in children's hospitals.
 
FairWarning
If one were tied to a terror organization, wouldn't it be smart to blend in with innocent migrants? These are the same people who set up control centers in children's hospitals.
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Not helping tens of thousands of innocent, distressed people because of "what ifs" and fear isn't very noble. When did America become a bunch of chickenshits?
 
Tron
The nice part about Internet discussions on politics and religion is that in the end, everyone always comes away more open minded about the opposing view point.
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I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not (note Matty-not sarchastic,) but I definitely do. I was (if I haven't mentioned this before-ha) the 605 state debate champion which sort of instilled in me to dig in my heels in arguments. I have definitely gotten better, and I do see both sides of this.

I think MF is correct that it seems inconsistent with Christian values to turn away the persecuted. However, if the point is made (which it often is) that Christians don't have the corner on morality and good values, then they should not be held to a higher standard than Joe good morals atheist.

Nina is correct that most of GL has a very narrow minded view Christians in general. The wingnuts that make the news are a small minority. The missionaries and other Christian good doers don't make good news. Westboro Baptist does.

Laugh at what you view as ignorant, uneducated believers if you must, but personally, I find it hard to believe that some people DON'T believe in a supreme being, at least of some sort. In any case, don't judge Christians by their worst specimens, and don't hold them to a higher standard than the equally moral and good unbelievers that you reference.


So yeah, basically I'm no closer than having a clear -cut opinion than I was yesterday.
I agree that fear cannot rule our decisions, and to me, the financial implications are more of a concern. When we are having to talk about the elimination of an insolvent social security system, it's hard to see bringing in more people, as much as we might want to. Although I really do like Canada's private sponsorship program. I haven't read the justifications for not already doing so here (other than just not wanting them here altogether.)

That's all.
 
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