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It is a bizarre spectacle watching neocons defending all things BP

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RogueScholar
I have to agree with Marbles on this one that while Obama may not have broken any laws in establishing this escrow fund, he overstepped his Constitutional authority in being the primary architect of it. Obama should be micromanaging the EPA and their efforts, while the Judicial system applies the appropriate remedies to those who can demonstrate a cause of action to be compensated. I feel bad for the people whose livelihoods have been ruined, but this is all just part of life. Bad things happen to good people and they have to start from scratch, get over it.

I also cry foul on all these people who are seeking money for lost wages and such. Every last one of those people use petroleum as a source of energy and that makes them all complicit in the search for new sources of petroleum. The same people who are looking for a handout from BP are the same ones who would be crying to the government for a handout if oil prices rose to a level that threatened their ability to make a profit from their labors. People need to spend their time adapting to the reality of the situation instead of looking for someone to blame. If people haven't set aside a nest egg to deal with catastrophe then they're responsible for their own suffering.
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You realize that the Attorney General (the one who decides who to prosecute) is an executive branch position that reports directly to the President? Since the Attorney General is a member of the President's Cabinet, he has every right to oversee a settlement in a case that effects millions of citizens. I would love to know exactly how that oversteps Constitutional authority other than simply stating that it does. Are you crying foul over welfare, unemployment, worker's comp, relief aid, etc.? A nest egg? Apparently, you don't realize the actual effects of this. This is going to take YEARS to clean up. Apparently, you're not aware of the state of our economy either. This isn't a handout. It's a repayment for gross negligence and wreckless endangerment for the sake of corporate greed.
 
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The people affected by the spill did not agree to let these pricks drill. Most of them didn't even know what those pricks were up to, we still don't know.
You can't fault the public for using petroleum. We use what is available. In fact whatever products are profitable for corporations are shoved down the peoples throats.
 
Swarmy
Alot of the people in the LA area had just financially recovered from Katrina. Lost wages and such from a natural catastrophe are one thing. This is something entirely different. How the fuck do you adapt to a situation when you and your whole family make your living on the Gulf and now it is saturated with oil due to someone else's negligence. So by your logic, if an earthquake shakes San Francisco to the ground, those people affected should be able to fend for themselves and not look to the Government for help. That's fucking retarded. And not Tug Speedman retarded, that's full on retarded.
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I'm saying that people spend too much time trying to assign blame and see justice done rather than just get on with the business of living. Yes, if an earthquake hits San Francisco I think those who are unable to rebuild should pack up whatever's left and start fresh somewhere else, rather than living in temporary housing for years while trying to get FEMA to pick up the tab. Somewhere along the way during the Inudstrial Revolution people totally forgot that living is an arduous experience, it's supposed to suck sweaty balls up to the moment you die. If you expect otherwise you're just another spoiled brat looking for someone to take pity on you.

As far as Katrina, those people had to know that living below sea level in hurricane territory was a pretty retarded thing in itself. That's fine if people want to take the risk, but don't start whining when the inevitable happens. That's precisely what happened here with the oil spill, it was an inevitable consequence of our ever-increasing need for oil that we would eventually go too far and fuck shit up. This is not BP's fault, this is the natural endgame of a society placing its own immediate needs over the needs of future generations. We could've learned to do with far less decades ago; energy rationing should've been just a way of life. Instead we wanted as much as we could get for as long as we could get it, and companies popped up to supply that demand. Nobody is talking about the fact that we wouldn't be drilling on the ocean floor for oil except that people aren't willing to expend the effort to live with a smaller carbon footprint.

My vision of government is simple infrastructure, police, fire, EMS, courts and transportation maintenance. Welfare, social security, unemployment, workers' comp., relief aid, those are all things that I would eliminate from our public policy if the decision were up to me. At some point we will have to accept the necessity of social darwinism and start treating people equitably instead of perpetually propping up the weak.

If it's going to take longer to clean up than the residents can abide, then I guess they'll have to learn to get by on less. There's plenty of wild pigs in the woods and fish in the lakes. I'd suggest they get busy remembering how to live off the land instead of off the government.
 
RogueScholar
I'm saying that people spend too much time trying to assign blame and see justice done rather than just get on with the business of living. Yes, if an earthquake hits San Francisco I think those who are unable to rebuild should pack up whatever's left and start fresh somewhere else, rather than living in temporary housing for years while trying to get FEMA to pick up the tab. Somewhere along the way during the Inudstrial Revolution people totally forgot that living is an arduous experience, it's supposed to suck sweaty balls up to the moment you die. If you expect otherwise you're just another spoiled brat looking for someone to take pity on you.

As far as Katrina, those people had to know that living below sea level in hurricane territory was a pretty retarded thing in itself. That's fine if people want to take the risk, but don't start whining when the inevitable happens. That's precisely what happened here with the oil spill, it was an inevitable consequence of our ever-increasing need for oil that we would eventually go too far and fuck shit up. This is not BP's fault, this is the natural endgame of a society placing its own immediate needs over the needs of future generations. We could've learned to do with far less decades ago; energy rationing should've been just a way of life. Instead we wanted as much as we could get for as long as we could get it, and companies popped up to supply that demand. Nobody is talking about the fact that we wouldn't be drilling on the ocean floor for oil except that people aren't willing to expend the effort to live with a smaller carbon footprint.

My vision of government is simple infrastructure, police, fire, EMS, courts and transportation maintenance. Welfare, social security, unemployment, workers' comp., relief aid, those are all things that I would eliminate from our public policy if the decision were up to me. At some point we will have to accept the necessity of social darwinism and start treating people equitably instead of perpetually propping up the weak.

If it's going to take longer to clean up than the residents can abide, then I guess they'll have to learn to get by on less. There's plenty of wild pigs in the woods and fish in the lakes. I'd suggest they get busy remembering how to live off the land instead of off the government.
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So if a catastrophe happens, whether through nature or manmade negligence, people should quit the jobs they are qualified for, find a new career, disregard any pension they may have built, leave their possessions, ignore their equity, make no attempts to rebuild the local economy, flee, and leave the place in shambles? Is that what you're getting at?
 
Nowhere, that's why it's absurd to expect special treatment for an "unforeseen" disaster because they're all right around the corner! We should all be living with the fear that Mother Nature will destroy everything we know tomorrow, so prepare accordingly. After it's passed, just move forward building a new life instead of trying to resurrect the old one.
 
The fact of the matter is that people can and do tolerate the vast overreachings of our government because they prefer an oppressive "safety blanket" to the insecurity of self-sufficiency. They will continue to do so until that safety blanket is in tatters due to gluttony and mismanagement. Anything that gets us closer to that revolutionary tipping point is, in my mind, serving the greater good.
 
RogueScholar
Nowhere, that's why it's absurd to expect special treatment for an "unforeseen" disaster because they're all right around the corner! We should all be living with the fear that Mother Nature will destroy everything we know tomorrow, so prepare accordingly. After it's passed, just move forward building a new life instead of trying to resurrect the old one.
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And why is that a better solution than rebuilding and not overcoming it? Do you realize the implications on our economy if people fled every time they faced adversity? There is absolutely no logic to this.
 
RogueScholar
We allow those people to remain in power. If people felt their authority was being usurped they have a duty to reappropriate it. So long as people tolerate the current system of government I hold them fully liable for any and all results of it.
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You're the one arguing the results of this. I'm perfectly happy holding the responsible party accountable.
 
I don't think that many would flee if they had stockpiled financial resources all their lives instead of frittering it away on vacations and other luxuries all the while expecting society at large to step in if something more than a mild recession strikes. You can't be spending significant portions of your annual income on things not directly related to survival and then complain when you don't have enough in the bank to weather a multi-year catastrophe. It's irresponsible and shouldn't be rewarded.
 
MonkeyF0cker
You're the one arguing the results of this. I'm perfectly happy holding the responsible party accountable.
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No matter how long you prosecute their misdeeds, you will never extract from them even a majority of the value of all the hardship that this incident will inflict on those affected. I'm sure a substantial amount of money will be taken from BP to deal with all of this, and those who fought to take it from them will feel vindicated and self-satisfied. That money will come too little too late to most people, and the ones who will heal quickest are those who are willing to pick up and start over without anyone holding their hand. That makes the prosecution of BP more of a feel-good exercise than anything else, if even those who are helped by it aren't restored to their pre-disaster condition. It distracts people from the real task, which is to find new ways to generate productivity and cash flow without until the ecosystem cleans itself.
 
RogueScholar
I don't think that many would flee if they had stockpiled financial resources all their lives instead of frittering it away on vacations and other luxuries all the while expecting society at large to step in if something more than a mild recession strikes. You can't be spending significant portions of your annual income on things not directly related to survival and then complain when you don't have enough in the bank to weather a multi-year catastrophe. It's irresponsible and shouldn't be rewarded.
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LMAO. Are you seriously calling out a bunch of fisherman for living lives of excessive extravagance pitted against a global oil power? This is a joke. Right?
 
RogueScholar
No matter how long you prosecute their misdeeds, you will never extract from them even a majority of the value of all the hardship that this incident will inflict on those affected. I'm sure a substantial amount of money will be taken from BP to deal with all of this, and those who fought to take it from them will feel vindicated and self-satisfied. That money will come too little too late to most people, and the ones who will heal quickest are those who are willing to pick up and start over without anyone holding their hand. That makes the prosecution of BP more of a feel-good exercise than anything else, if even those who are helped by it aren't restored to their pre-disaster condition. It distracts people from the real task, which is to find new ways to generate productivity and cash flow without until the ecosystem cleans itself.
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So they should pay for nothing then? Is that what you're implying?

The precise reason for the $20 billion escrow is exactly for the purpose of those funds not coming too little or too late.
 
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