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It is a bizarre spectacle watching neocons defending all things BP

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MonkeyF0cker
It's pretty clear who is at fault here. Making them pay for it gets no sympathy from me. Sorry.
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BP is definately at fault for the spill they should pay whatever. But I think others have a responsibility to make sure the oil gets cleaned up.

If there is a fire at a factory, the factory workers aren't the only ones who will put out the fire. The fire deapartment would show up to help. The governemnt should have taken a role in the cleanup and billed BP whaever the cost.
 
tullamore
BP is definately at fault for the spill they should pay whatever. But I think others have a responsibility to make sure the oil gets cleaned up.

If there is a fire at a factory, the factory workers aren't the only ones who will put out the fire. The fire deapartment would show up to help. The governemnt should have taken a role in the cleanup and billed BP whaever the cost.
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I believe that's exactly what they are in the process of doing, tully.
 
MonkeyF0cker
So the use of government resources isn't necessary to clean the spill? You're joking. Right?
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you're making 2 different arguments here. payout of claims to businesses and individuals affected by the oil spill and the cost of cleaning up the oil spill. whatever accrued cost to the tax payer to clean the spill is supposed to be payed back by the responsible party. that's irrelevant to the claims process and has nothing to do with the 20 billion.
 
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MonkeyF0cker
So claims are never settled out of court? What are you on, lost?
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is that what this is? BP settling out of court? Even Obama explicitly said that the escrow account did not supersede either individuals' rights or states' rights to present claims in court, and said BP would continue to be liable for the environmental disaster it has caused.
 
losturmarbles
is that what this is? BP settling out of court? Even Obama explicitly said that the escrow account did not supersede either individuals' rights or states' rights to present claims in court, and said BP would continue to be liable for the environmental disaster it has caused.
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Of course they are still liable for other claims. This is the federal government's claim. They aren't being charged $20 billion on top of everything.
 
losturmarbles
you're making 2 different arguments here. payout of claims to businesses and individuals affected by the oil spill and the cost of cleaning up the oil spill. whatever accrued cost to the tax payer to clean the spill is supposed to be payed back by the responsible party. that's irrelevant to the claims process and has nothing to do with the 20 billion.
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They owe money for EVERYTHING about the spill. Again, there is nothing wrong with getting a downpayment.
 
MonkeyF0cker
Of course they are still liable for other claims. This is the federal government's claim. They aren't being charged $20 billion on top of everything.
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the federal government's claim? how so? this isn't even a claim to begin with. and it's to payout claims not the government.

they aren't being charged $20 billion on top of everything?? no, they're being intimidated into giving up $20 billion on top of everything.
 
MonkeyF0cker
They owe money for EVERYTHING about the spill. Again, there is nothing wrong with getting a downpayment.
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there's nothing wrong with getting a down payment legally. Being summoned by the President, and then told you're going to put 20 billion in an escrow account to let the President decide who gets it. That doesn't sound like ethical and legal protocol, more like mafia style corrupt Chicago politics.
 
losturmarbles
so you're saying that without putting government in the middle of the claim process that tax payer's will be liable for damages?

i say the exact opposite.
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BP said that they would pay for whatever needed to be compensated. IF THEY FELT IT WAS ON THE LEVEL. They caused this and then they are supposed to be trusted to decide what should be compensated?? A third party should have been put in charge of this and a $20 billion fund to start with isn't a bad idea.
 
losturmarbles
there's nothing wrong with getting a down payment legally. Being summoned by the President, and then told you're going to put 20 billion in an escrow account to let the President decide who gets it. That doesn't sound like ethical and legal protocol, more like mafia style corrupt Chicago politics.
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Who else decides who is the beneficiary of those claims? LOL. The government decides it no matter if they get a portion of the money upfront or not.
 
losturmarbles
the federal government's claim? how so? this isn't even a claim to begin with. and it's to payout claims not the government.

they aren't being charged $20 billion on top of everything?? no, they're being intimidated into giving up $20 billion on top of everything.
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Who do you think would be giving help to those people effected by this if not for the fund? Hint: The government.

Had Obama not secured money from BP, the Republicans would be whining about MORE taxpayer dollars being used and MORE debt incurred. It's just beyond ridiculous.
 
tullamore
I guess my complaint is it took so long. There was a lot of inaction immediately after the spill.
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There was a lot of inaction at first due to the fact that the oil companies downplayed the amount of oil that was involved. They have raised the amount of oil being introduced into the gulf three times that I know of and have increased the number of barrels introduced from 10,000 to 60,000.
 
Swarmy
BP said that they would pay for whatever needed to be compensated. IF THEY FELT IT WAS ON THE LEVEL. They caused this and then they are supposed to be trusted to decide what should be compensated?? A third party should have been put in charge of this and a $20 billion fund to start with isn't a bad idea.
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That's the way a claims process work. What gives you the impression that BP wasn't meeting (which it was) or wasn't going to meet it's obligations?

We have a court system for a reason. We also have a balance of power between the different branches of government for a reason. And when the President overreaches his power to subvert the rule of law, whether it be in the name of good or not, it's still subverting the rule of law. period.
 
MonkeyF0cker
Who else decides who is the beneficiary of those claims? LOL. The government decides it no matter if they get a portion of the money upfront or not.
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i don't follow :clueless:

BP had a claims process already set up.

I guess you're talking about lawsuits? so now you're saying that since the courts decide the outcome of the lawsuits, that the president should just speed up that process and eliminate the courts altogether by deciding himself?
 
MonkeyF0cker
Who do you think would be giving help to those people effected by this if not for the fund? Hint: The government.

Had Obama not secured money from BP, the Republicans would be whining about MORE taxpayer dollars being used and MORE debt incurred. It's just beyond ridiculous.
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how about MORE ridiculous strawman arguments.

funny how the OP was complaining about "partisan" politics but essentially made it a partisan complaint by blaming the republicans. you seem to follow that train of thought.
 
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