Reference to god in the national anthem

[Jello]

I don't have a huge problem with the pledge or any anthem. In the grand scheme of indoctrination, these aren't major influences. They are just words. It does reflect a broader issue in society where religious assimilation is simply taken for granted. We've gone so far past the level of sanity in that regard though, and so long ago, that I've given up worrying about it.

People are free to make up their own minds. If they are individualistic enough, they can find in their own time a way to either break from the tradition of dogmatic thinking; or choose to embrace it hopefully on their own terms and through their own conclusions. The ones that don't have enough initiative to think past the brainwashing they suffer through as children aren't really sophisticated enough to matter in the discussion, imo.

 

[reno cool]

Nobody cares that children are forced to pledge allegiances? You don't think that repeating something constantly makes a huge imprint on your brain?
And the religious insanity.
Both are done simply to keep people in line and stupid.

 

[Badnina]

I had to keep repeating De Lorilei or something stupid like that in high school German. Does it appear to have effected me at all?

 

[MonkeyF0cker]

I don't have a huge problem with the pledge or any anthem. In the grand scheme of indoctrination, these aren't major influences. They are just words. It does reflect a broader issue in society where religious assimilation is simply taken for granted. We've gone so far past the level of sanity in that regard though, and so long ago, that I've given up worrying about it.

People are free to make up their own minds. If they are individualistic enough, they can find in their own time a way to either break from the tradition of dogmatic thinking; or choose to embrace it hopefully on their own terms and through their own conclusions. The ones that don't have enough initiative to think past the brainwashing they suffer through as children aren't really sophisticated enough to matter in the discussion, imo.

And yet your very own signature contains an extremely dogmatic reference to the soul. Are you brainwashed as well?

 

[MonkeyF0cker]

Nobody cares that children are forced to pledge allegiances? You don't think that repeating something constantly makes a huge imprint on your brain?
And the religious insanity.
Both are done simply to keep people in line and stupid.

I don't believe that because I repeated the Pledge of Allegiance that I am somehow brainwashed. What was it that made me root for my high school team, my local sports teams, or my country to do well in the Olympics? It had to be that damn Pledge of Allegiance, right? The fucking Pledge of Allegiance doesn't make you believe in God. For fucks sake. What are you people smoking?

 

[reno cool]

It plants a later reinforced idea in your head that it's ok and even noble to fight in war, for one. It teaches you to look at yourself as part of a group, conformity, ignorance, obedience, you name it. Sure, it affects some more than others.

And of course implicit is the disdain for foreign countries, cultures.

 

[reno cool]

But I guess it's not the cause and effect of the pledge itself that bothers me. It's more like a symptom. As in. how fucked up does a culture have to be to require children to declare allegiances?

 

[MonkeyF0cker]

Umm. You ARE part of a group.

 

[kato]

I don't have a huge problem with the pledge or any anthem. In the grand scheme of indoctrination, these aren't major influences. They are just words. It does reflect a broader issue in society where religious assimilation is simply taken for granted. We've gone so far past the level of sanity in that regard though, and so long ago, that I've given up worrying about it.

People are free to make up their own minds. If they are individualistic enough, they can find in their own time a way to either break from the tradition of dogmatic thinking; or choose to embrace it hopefully on their own terms and through their own conclusions. The ones that don't have enough initiative to think past the brainwashing they suffer through as children aren't really sophisticated enough to matter in the discussion, imo.

smart, good call

 

[Mudcat]

Perhaps it bears mentioning that, like the US Pledge of Allegiance, the Canadian national anthem's lyrics have already been changed and didn't used to have superstitious references. So any arguments about tradition in this case are in agreement with my point.

(Not that I would ever use the concept of tradition as an argument for anything. I consider tradition to be an absurd fear-based notion which is all about an insistence on not thinking. That is definitely not what I stand for.)

Anyway I am not particularly advocating changing the current version of the lyrics. I would be perfectly happy with a whole new anthem. O Canada is an extraordinarily bland piece of music - I love change and wouldn't mind going with more of a toe-tapper.




I just find it embarrassing. I know there many Canadians who use gods but I don't like being painted with the same brush.

 

[RageWizard]

I don't have a problem with the word god or lord or whatever, my problem is the imaginery friends industry itself. Sure I belive there is something out there that invented hydrogen, gravity, and put in place all the rules, and that is it. He/She/It/ whatever doesn't give a rats ass about you and your problems. My god is a big picture god who is also a hands off god.

So referencing a generic god is OK with me. Then again making carttons about a muslim god is funny to me also, I say fuck them muslim fucks who have no sense of humor. The same goes for the freakin Jews and Christianfucks as well. Budda gets a break, come on the dude has a weight problem.

 

[FreeFall]

No sir, I don't like it.

Neither do I.

Hey Mudcat, how would you feel about a nation's school system that forces it's children to say this "Pledge of Allegiance" every morning:

I pledge allegiance
To the flag
Of the United States of America
And to the Republic
For which it stands
One nation
Under God
Indivisible
With liberty and justice for all

Ever since my father taught me about organized religion and I started making many of my own connections and forming my own view I skipped that line. Then soon the whole piece, especially when I didn't really agree with the way justice is executed in this nation.

Quite frankly I'm not convinced I wanna live here. Someone else can have my "The American Dream."

 

[Jello]

And yet your very own signature contains an extremely dogmatic reference to the soul. Are you brainwashed as well?

That quote has absolutely nothing to do with dogma, or religion for that matter. The idea of a person's "soul" is not intrinsically tied to any religion. It's a very vague concept that can be taken to mean many different things to different people.

 

[Bread]

"Intrinsically"???????????? Calm down there Scholar 2.

 

[Jello]

The words "Under God" were added during a very strange time in US political history. This was during the same era of McCarthyism, where Americans where terrified of the "godless Communists" taking over the world.

 

[Jello]

"Intrinsically"???????????? Calm down there Scholar 2.

Sorry if the conversation might be slipping over your head.

Is this thread is taking you outside of your comfort zone? Maybe you should go watch Zoolander again.

 

[Bread]

Actually I'm getting a chuckle watching you boys spin your wheels on such a played-out argument. Hey everyone look at me! I think that ____ _____ __ ______ __________! So there!

But if it makes you feel superior to believe that this topic is beyond the grasp of a mouth-breather such as myself, that's fine too. We all need something to bring a feeling of self-worth at times.

 

[Jello]

LOL. I think I've done the impossible - offended Bread on a message board.

It was just a joke big guy.