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Reference to god in the national anthem

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look, I wasn't around to be consulted when these pledges were written, so I'm just going to go with what was decided on in my absence. And then when I become more knowledgeable than a fetus, I'll make my own opinions about what's good for my life. Mkay?
 
Mudcat
If you were trying to confuse the hell out of me, you succeeded. Are you talking about the Queen of England?

That would be an interesting discussion: who has less relevance to people like me, God or the Queen of England?


I would object in strong terms on principle. If I had kids of my own and someone was trying to drill that into them, my objection might become aggressive.

I do not want god stuff on the money or anything that can be seen as representative of the population. If people want to use gods they should go off on their own and do what they feel they must, but there is no reason people like me should be dragged into it and have our beliefs crapped on.
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instead of drilling your kids with the idea that god is bad. why don't you just sit down with that little booger chomper and explain to them that YOU think that god is an outdated concept, but let them make their own choice.
 
Badnina
I am against changing the words to things people wrote unless its parody just to fit one person's scope of things. To me that smacks of censorship and I am anti that in all forms.
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Well you should be against the god line in the Pledge of Allegiance then, because the words of the pledge were changed in 1954 to include the phrase "under god".
 
Mudcat
If you were trying to confuse the hell out of me, you succeeded. Are you talking about the Queen of England?

That would be an interesting discussion: who has less relevance to people like me, God or the Queen of England?
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Close, I was actually talking about The Queen in Right of Canada, which is in personal union with the crown of Great Britain in the person of Elizabeth II. The laws fashioned by your parliament aren't binding until they receive Royal Assent, so I would wager that she bears at least a little more relevance to you than God. I'm surprised you don't take umbrage at her position as the locus of your Canadian oaths of allegiance and "owner" of your state lands; coupled with her position of Supreme Governor of the Church of England, you could draw a great many parallels between her behavior and that of a cult leader.
 
Do those words really force kids to believe in God? Come on.

I'm far from religious in the traditional sense. However, I think we're here for some reason. I do think there are far more disastrous things that kids are forced to say and do aside from reciting a few words about God.
 
Just remember that when someone almost dies but pulls through, it's because God had a bigger plan for them. But if they actually end up dying, it's because it was God's will.

Basically if you die before your time, it's because God really didn't have much faith in you.
 
MonkeyF0cker
Do those words really force kids to believe in God? Come on.

I'm far from religious in the traditional sense. However, I think we're here for some reason. I do think there are far more disastrous things that kids are forced to say and do aside from reciting a few words about God.
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The laws of physics in our universe (at least as far as we understand them) are so precisely balanced that it is quite hard to believe they came into force as a result of chance after the Big Bang.
So in that sense, I am also inclined to think that they are the result of design. Who or what the design came from - I have absolutely no idea, but is highly unlikely that a God in the Biblical sense is responsible.
 
Who says the pledge any more? I don't think I ever did past 2nd grade.

but the deal with national anthems...I don't know about Canada or other countries but I know the US' was a poem written the day after a night battle over 200 years ago. Things like that I am anti against changing up. If you don't like the words, then redo the whole thing. Muddy is a songwriter. I bet he wouldn't like someone changing one of his songs cause they didn't like one part. If like the US, the music was added later to the words, then redo all the words. I don't believe in witches but I enjoy a good production of MacBeth.
 
I'm really tired of everyone wanting to nitpick and remove things (in either art or tradition) that may be considered offensive (in the broadest sense of the word) to some. It's precisely this rationale that gives us watered down pig vomit for entertainment on TV and in the theaters. Everyone is scared to offend the people who are trying their absolute damnedest to be offended. Fuck them, I say.
 
MonkeyF0cker
I'm really tired of everyone wanting to nitpick and remove things (in either art or tradition) that may be considered offensive (in the broadest sense of the word) to some. It's precisely this rationale that gives us watered down pig vomit for entertainment on TV and in the theaters. Everyone is scared to offend the people who are trying their absolute damnedest to be offended. Fuck them, I say.
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Again, the words "under god" were not in the pledge of allegiance until they were added in 1954. I'm not talking about nitpicking and removing anything. If you don't disagree with adding things as much as you do with removing them, then you are kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
Jelllo, I get your point. I only learned the pledge one way. I am guessing Congress added the two words back in the 50s. I think people have petitioned Congress to take them back out. I rarely hear the pledge any more. But I hear the national anthem.

there is a movement here to replace our state song. I am good with that. No one knows the one we have any way. But we are replacing the whole song. Not just making changes here and there to suit everyone.
 
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