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Coronavirus

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So these assholes move from "not over burdening the system" to this nebulous concept of "testing and tracing", before they free the people.
And of course hey, we need way more than what we have :hey: And hey, who knows if that's even possible we can get that many.
Straight up scam. I wonder for how long the media and their pals would support the shutdown if there wasn't a giant "stimulus" for the rich? :hmm:
 
reno cool
So these assholes move from "not over burdening the system" to this nebulous concept of "testing and tracing", before they free the people.
And of course hey, we need way more than what we have :hey: And hey, who knows if that's even possible we can get that many.
Straight up scam. I wonder for how long the media and their pals would support the shutdown if there wasn't a giant "stimulus" for the rich? :hmm:
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Confirmed cases and deaths keep piling up every day, and there really isn't any end in sight. Especially if we eliminate preventative measures.

:hmm: what? How is this a scam? Do you think that the disease isn't real? Do you think that the way the disease is spread (with human-to-human contact) isn't real?

I just don't get it. Taking the stance that the quarantine is doing more harm than good makes sense to me. Taking the stance that our freedoms and setting a precedent against future lockdowns are more important than human lives makes sense to me. These are debatable points.

"Straight up scam"??? This isn't propaganda dude, it's a global pandemic that's sweeping around the world with remarkable efficiency. Your legitimate points and concerns are lost when you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the disease and the threat it imposes.
 
:common: man. We've made how many posts in this thread and you can't get what I mean. Obviously I'm not saying that this virus doesn't exist or kill people.
The scam is in how blatantly "they" now appear to be leading the people by the nose, to achieve their interests.
We get no public debate, no weighing of options, still no data based evidence of effectiveness of their measures. Yet they feel no need to provide any specifics as to when or what metrics could lead to people getting their rights back.
First it was a somewhat simple, measurable concept of not overloading hospitals and getting over a peak of cases. Now they moved on to some weird testing number requirements, that nobody can even follow. (Let alone, they don't even mention how they intend to force people to take these tests)
At this point their good intentions cannot be taken seriously by a reasonable person. (Hence it's a scam)

And yes, in this case "they" is the conglomerate of different forces that make up the authority that acts upon the populace. ie the system. Wealthy powerful people who fund, create, own, the institutions that run our lives. They have some varying interests and disagreements , but they seem to have a common goal in milking the people in the most efficient way possible. Unfortunately, looks like they must've now decided that complete burial is doable and efficient.
 
They, they, they, they, they.

I definitely agree with you that there should be a lot more debate and a lot more transparency. I'm just not connecting the dots like you are.

- Tons of millionaires and billionaires are getting crushed by this thing. These ones aren't in the "they", only the ones who can and will profit from complete burial are, right?

- Different states are now producing different guidelines for reopening. Are the ones promoting continued lockdown in the "they" (like Cali and NY governor) but ones that are trying to reopen things (like Georgia governor) NOT in the "they"?

- Since liberals seem to be the ones championing the lockdown, are they in the they? CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, etc all media with liberal tints helping to perpetuate the fear... so they are run by "they"? Fox News and Trump (who is very wealthy and very powerful) is not part of "they"?

- In todays day and age where EVERYTHING leaks, not a single person who has been bought out or coerced or manipulated by "they" has ever come out against them? Or is it that "they" are so powerful they control ALL news and information? (Which seems to me would be even more impossible to keep completely under wraps?)

Sure, it's possible that a big "they" that doesn't make any sense financially or politically is pulling the strings.

Isn't it also possible that society is just woefully unprepared for this and is just making moves on the fly based on observations and data gathered? I'll certainly agree it isn't always with the best intentions in mind (ie could be to protect their own asses or get reelected or whatever), but it could be a reaction to an overwhelming issue instead or a fantastical secret cult?

Isn't it possible the media just broadcasts fear porn because that's what sells newspapers/ads? Or does it have to be a giant all encompassing conspiracy?

At least if you could connect the dots in a cool way to point to who "they" is it would at least be more fun or intriguing to consider. To date they are just "a conglomerate of different forces that run our lives", despite there being fucktons of millionaires, billionaires, and politicians that aren't involved. What happened to their invites?
 
For the record, I believe wholeheartedly that the US government is bought-and-paid for. That democracy in this country is a facade. That we live in an oligarchy in which the rich and powerful make all of the decisions and pull all of the strings.

And I still can't get there with your "they" stuff because when I follow the money, most of "them" are getting slaughtered. I don't think "they" are having a good time right now. US citizens becoming complicit in following unconstitutional orders is totally a fair concern to have and something that absolutely could be used against us in the future. But in the present I just see a bunch of people trying to figure out WTF to do in a totally unprecedented crisis.
 
Vegas Dave
- In todays day and age where EVERYTHING leaks, not a single person who has been bought out or coerced or manipulated by "they" has ever come out against them? Or is it that "they" are so powerful they control ALL news and information? (Which seems to me would be even more impossible to keep completely under wraps?)
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they got Epstein man, he was about to blow the lid off and they got to him first

see post #40 in this thread

https://www.gamelive.com/threads/coronavirus.24598/post-660155
 
I don't understand why you insist on getting hung on up on they. It's a system made up of multiple parts. And yes there are powerful people who have stakes in different things. It would be crazy if it were otherwise. Unless you believe that the public somehow creates our institutions from down up. That to me seems like a fantasy. Obviously I don't know of particulars of which guy has a stake in what. But I can easily see how the system and certain different parts of it act. And in recent years especially, I notice the propaganda has become too obvious and cliche, to be as anything but the hand of the powerful serving their mostly anti human interests.

To me it just looks you're trying really hard to make pretty obvious things look like some conspiracy theory. It's the system man. Simple
 
Right, I agree that we have a system with multiple parts and powerful people having stakes in different things. I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. I'm seeing this crazy event taking place that nobody planned for, and the powers that be trying to figure out how to react to it. You say these are "pretty obvious things", but it's you taking these leaps of faith that social distancing measures are an elaborate scheme as opposed to a response to a deadly virus. It makes a lot more sense to me that these decisions are being made to save lives and/or protect public images of those making the decisions than it does that this is all a designed effort to take our freedoms away.

In my scenario, there is no "they", as everyone is just trying to figure it out/get through this. In your scenario, "they" are actively making moves to fuck us over specifically for their own financial and power gains. I can't disprove "they" in the same way I can't disprove God. I just feel like the burden of proof is on the person claiming they exist.

Ironically, my theist friend said the same thing, that I get too "caught up" on evidence pointing to there being no God. You can "easily see how the system and certain different parts of it act" in the same way that my theist friend can easily see how we are all God's creation. And that's fine, you all can believe whatever you want to believe, but without any concrete evidence you shouldn't be judgmental of others who don't.
 
Vegas Dave
They, they, they, they, they.

I definitely agree with you that there should be a lot more debate and a lot more transparency. I'm just not connecting the dots like you are.

- Tons of millionaires and billionaires are getting crushed by this thing. These ones aren't in the "they", only the ones who can and will profit from complete burial are, right?

- Different states are now producing different guidelines for reopening. Are the ones promoting continued lockdown in the "they" (like Cali and NY governor) but ones that are trying to reopen things (like Georgia governor) NOT in the "they"?

- Since liberals seem to be the ones championing the lockdown, are they in the they? CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, etc all media with liberal tints helping to perpetuate the fear... so they are run by "they"? Fox News and Trump (who is very wealthy and very powerful) is not part of "they"?

- In todays day and age where EVERYTHING leaks, not a single person who has been bought out or coerced or manipulated by "they" has ever come out against them? Or is it that "they" are so powerful they control ALL news and information? (Which seems to me would be even more impossible to keep completely under wraps?)

Sure, it's possible that a big "they" that doesn't make any sense financially or politically is pulling the strings.

Isn't it also possible that society is just woefully unprepared for this and is just making moves on the fly based on observations and data gathered? I'll certainly agree it isn't always with the best intentions in mind (ie could be to protect their own asses or get reelected or whatever), but it could be a reaction to an overwhelming issue instead or a fantastical secret cult?

Isn't it possible the media just broadcasts fear porn because that's what sells newspapers/ads? Or does it have to be a giant all encompassing conspiracy?

At least if you could connect the dots in a cool way to point to who "they" is it would at least be more fun or intriguing to consider. To date they are just "a conglomerate of different forces that run our lives", despite there being fucktons of millionaires, billionaires, and politicians that aren't involved. What happened to their invites?
Click to expand...

Yes this is more into the specifics of who benefits where. Admittedly, I don't know the particulars. But suffice it to say, there are more powerful wealthy individuals/ families who are not in the public eye. (Fairly sure the sport team owners and the like are far down the list). And their objectives are not short term sales, but more important issues of shaping the world in a way that's beneficial, solving geopolitical problems and protecting their status.
And the big money will flow to new opportunities and make fortunes. So if casinos or sports leagues become irrelevant, that's really not a problem. 100 years ago nobody cared about sports or casinos, the rich saw an opportunity hyped em, here we are. They'll do that with something else.
The game is exploiting the public and the world in the most efficient way. And it doesn't even have to be negative for the subject. Often it leads to positive things.
And the media people etc. are cogs in the system. They have minimal gains of keeping their jobs, promotions etc, staying relevant, by promoting the interests of the powerful. They I'm sure, believe in their b.s. The issue is, that if you don't have the acceptable views, you wouldn't be promoted by the institutions and your voice wouldn't be heard.
But yes, just because certain powerful groups want certain things to happen, doesn't mean they can always pull it off. There a lot of opposing forces in the world, the systems are complex, and not ideal.
 
Vegas Dave
Right, I agree that we have a system with multiple parts and powerful people having stakes in different things. I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. I'm seeing this crazy event taking place that nobody planned for, and the powers that be trying to figure out how to react to it. You say these are "pretty obvious things", but it's you taking these leaps of faith that social distancing measures are an elaborate scheme as opposed to a response to a deadly virus. It makes a lot more sense to me that these decisions are being made to save lives and/or protect public images of those making the decisions than it does that this is all a designed effort to take our freedoms away.

In my scenario, there is no "they", as everyone is just trying to figure it out/get through this. In your scenario, "they" are actively making moves to fuck us over specifically for their own financial and power gains. I can't disprove "they" in the same way I can't disprove God. I just feel like the burden of proof is on the person claiming they exist.

Ironically, my theist friend said the same thing, that I get too "caught up" on evidence pointing to there being no God. You can "easily see how the system and certain different parts of it act" in the same way that my theist friend can easily see how we are all God's creation. And that's fine, you all can believe whatever you want to believe, but without any concrete evidence you shouldn't be judgmental of others who don't.
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Well both are kind of true at different levels. Yes, I don't doubt the doctors etc. are trying to save lives etc.. And even governors and politicians. But the system is created in such a way, that powerful people can shape these institutions when needed to serve their needs.
 
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reno cool
Yes this is more into the specifics of who benefits where. Admittedly, I don't know the particulars. But suffice it to say, there are more powerful wealthy individuals/ families who are not in the public eye. (Fairly sure the sport team owners and the like are far down the list). And their objectives are not short term sales, but more important issues of shaping the world in a way that's beneficial, solving geopolitical problems and protecting their status.
And the big money will flow to new opportunities and make fortunes. So if casinos or sports leagues become irrelevant, that's really not a problem. 100 years ago nobody cared about sports or casinos, the rich saw an opportunity hyped em, here we are. They'll do that with something else.
The game is exploiting the public and the world in the most efficient way. And it doesn't even have to be negative for the subject. Often it leads to positive things.
And the media people etc. are cogs in the system. They have minimal gains of keeping their jobs, promotions etc, staying relevant, by promoting the interests of the powerful. They I'm sure, believe in their b.s. The issue is, that if you don't have the acceptable views, you wouldn't be promoted by the institutions and your voice wouldn't be heard.
But yes, just because certain powerful groups want certain things to happen, doesn't mean they can always pull it off. There a lot of opposing forces in the world, the systems are complex, and not ideal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for engaging in conversation. I'm always interested in learning how other people view things and appreciate your willingness to explain yourself and elaborate without getting defensive or bitchy.

Obviously we aren't going to come to an "agreement" here, but I think we've both had the chance to illustrate our points and mindsets well. Cheers. :cheers:
 
I love the idea that because the stock market is down 30% and AMC and United are going to either restructure or go under translates to millionaires getting slaughtered. Especially if you look past the next 18 months.

My household is definitely making financial gains in this environment and we're not in the super rich group. As long as we both keep our jobs (fiance and law seem to be booming actually), we've invested a bunch of $ that will surely be plus in 5+ years (even just by keeping our 401k contributions up). And when it's done there will be a glut of workers clambering over one another just to get a paycheck. The power wielded by even the smallest hiring budget will be much greater than before.
 
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