Hooligans Sportsbook

10 billion X 10 trillion multiplied by another 10000 trillion < infinity

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MrX
Anyways...

You're completely aware that I could rattle off a dozen things where it would seem remarkable if they were zero.

I'm not even trying to be annoyingly contrarian. I understand the notion, but I really don't feel it. For the most part, the fact that there is at least one universe doesn't trigger anything in me to feel like there must be an entity behind it.

Although i think there is something to think about with the simulated universe idea. I know nothing about it, but I think the gist of it is, if you accept that it's technically possible to simulate entire universes, and you accept that technological civilizations exist, that given the unfathomable size of the universe, there have to be enormous numbers of simulated universes.

Given that, the odds that we're in the actual universe, and not in a simulation are about nil. I don't have a problem with that philosophically. I guess it makes a certain amount of sense. If our God is just some scientists fiddling around with universes and observing them, it would explain the indifference He/She/Whatever seems to have. Makes more sense than most Creator mythology to me.
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Yeah yeah, that was me avoiding the question altogether. I have no serious answer.

The simulation argument bugs me for a reason that'll probably appear silly. In the same way that a racing videogame is a reasonable substitute for real racing (and indeed, racers train on simulators all the time), there's a huge gap in sensory input between the game and the real thing. You can't feel G's and you can't lose a limb, or your life. Entirely different stakes.

My point is this: a simulated universe that inflicts all sorts of calamities like chronic pain, persistent vegetative state, famine, etc. seems especially cruel. Hard to fathom that a Designer would include so many detailed forms of suffering.

IMO the whole idea could have only come from the brains of rich and generally healthy people who have a mostly pleasant relationship with their surroundings.

But maybe I'm being naive here again, and maybe the simulation *is* that detailed and the goal in SimWorld is to make life bearable for all, at which point credits roll and the Designer comes out from behind the curtains with golden confetti raining all over, then an unlimited supply of virgins, whiskey and cigars suddenly falls from the sky.

That I would tolerate.
 
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Matty
My point is this: a simulated universe that inflicts all sorts of calamities like chronic pain, persistent vegetative state, famine, etc. seems especially cruel. Hard to fathom that a Designer would include so many detailed forms of suffering.
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I imagined these universe simulations as giant physics experiments. And, yes, I'd expect that life would be the most interesting aspect of them, probably the ultimate goal. But you've got to figure there are millions of other planets in this simulated universe with life. Humanity, at our current level of civilization would likely be of very little interest to the designers. What have we accomplished, compared to beings that are able to simulate universes? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that individual human suffering would be of much consequence to them. Compared to what's possible, we're ants at best.

And who knows, there might be some real creeps out there with access to universe simulators. We're lucky we're not in one of their universes. Think how much worse things could actually be.
 
plommer
Yes, this has been my belief for a long time now, religious peple will challenge it citing scripture (facepalm) and ultimately don't get it which is entirely baffling as it makes perfect sense and is the ONLY correct answer.

Also makes me wonder why some people can't believe in the possibility of nothingness before and after life. I think the answer lies somewhere along the lines of that type of thought is too uncomfortable/scary and religion provides comfort. I truly wish I could become religious and experience the comfort it brings to true believers.

If you are with me let us pray, in Jesus name for this to happen. Reno, I'm excluding you, because you're a filthy Jew and your people murdered Christ. No offense.

I've read Conrad Blacks articles in the National Post and the guy is utterly super intelligent, hes also a devout Catholic. How can someone so highly intelligent believe in Christianity? Just another one of gods miracles, obviously.
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I don't know the guy. But maybe the point is not to find an objective truth, but believe in who you are, where you came from, honor your ancestors etc..
To me as a kid taking the notion of god literally was not comprehensible. When I came here and went to a Jewish summer camp I was 9. I saw kids from probably 5 to 15, encouraged(?) to bang on the table and chant some kind of prayers. I thought they were nuts. I thought this was child abuse. I still find religious images creepy and silly. But hey, I guess this is how people form community and relate to each other :dunno:
 
reno cool
Unfortunately, it seems likely to me that like Mudcat mentioned before, we might be reliving the same life over and over again. Something doesn't quite jive with the notion, here I am now, out of all eternity.
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It seems more likely to you that instead of there being one timeline of random events in which new people and creatures come and go through life and death that there is randomly some constant replay happening?

I get where you are coming from, it seems crazy that this universe formed billions of years ago and evolution happened and all of these random events led to the creation of YOU, here and now. But there have been over 100 billion humans, there isn't any thing particularly interesting about us happening to be the ones that are here now. It only feels interesting because we are currently experiencing it.
 
MrX's idea that this universe is one of many physics experiments is interesting. It would explain physical constants that seem arbitrary to us - the speed of light and the gravitational constant for example. Our universe would be the product of predetermined parameters, and the nerds in charge would be running tons of different simulations with varying physical constants, see what kind of weird shit springs up.

Maybe we'll be one of the least interesting results they'll collect - almost no sign of life in this one, except for that one blue ball that sent up tiny rockets in the sky for a split second before a virus wiped them all out.
 
Vegas Dave
It seems more likely to you that instead of there being one timeline of random events in which new people and creatures come and go through life and death that there is randomly some constant replay happening?

I get where you are coming from, it seems crazy that this universe formed billions of years ago and evolution happened and all of these random events led to the creation of YOU, here and now. But there have been over 100 billion humans, there isn't any thing particularly interesting about us happening to be the ones that are here now. It only feels interesting because we are currently experiencing it.
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yeah something doesn't seem right about the way we look at time maybe. I think in the original thesis the notion is that from our stand point (being dead) all eternity passes in an instant and we're back to where we started.
I mean I hope this isn't true. My life has been more or less decent, but I don't particularly want to keep reliving it. What about all the terrible lives?
 
The creator is obviously more inteligent than us, you would think that figuring out the answers to these questions is beyond our capabilities.
ie creator able to create the earth, sun and eternity but can't figure out how to prevent humans from discovering the truth/reality/secrets of the creation.
 
The idea of an intent driven creator never felt convincing to me either. One of the arguments for God was that the universe exhibits order. I feel it exhibits total disorder. We put paradigms on it to make some order out of it.
 
plommer
The creator is obviously more inteligent than us, you would think that figuring out the answers to these questions is beyond our capabilities.
ie creator able to create the earth, sun and eternity but can't figure out how to prevent humans from discovering the truth/reality/secrets of the creation.
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Again, maybe that's the goal of the game. God keeps rolling the dice/creating a new universe until someone figures out how it all works.

Then we progress to the next level where it's more of the same but with a higher difficulty level and every boss is in a new location like in the first Zelda.
 
reno cool
The idea of an intent driven creator never felt convincing to me either. One of the arguments for God was that the universe exhibits order. I feel it exhibits total disorder. We put paradigms on it to make some order out of it.
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I had the same argument with a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses once. We're in the middle of fucking nowhere in a nondescript, unremarkable galaxy. We're lost in a big cloud of dust, bros.
 
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