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Suicide

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Swedie your story about your mother is particularly resonant with me because it so much like that of a good friend of mine. He is the founder of CAST-Canada which is the organization dedicated to addressing trauma and addictions which I do volunteer stuff for.

He had multiple incidents as a child where his mother attempted suicide - and she would purposely time them to coincide with him coming home from school, if you can imagine.

That was an actual traumatizing event for him - which led to fairly extreme episodes in his later life. Some of it took years to bubble up. The weird thing about trauma is the exact same thing can happen to different people and one will be fine and the other will have extreme issues.

So I guess what I'm saying is, take care of yourself and stay self-aware.



Good news is his mother, like yours, is doing very well today. She is leading a happy productive life. In her case, she got into AA at some point and found something meaningful there and I believe is 30+ years clean and sober now.

Her son has gone through a hell of a lot including addictions, homelessness and these trauma "flashback" events - but he has come out the other side too. The cycle appears to be broken.
 
Robyn
One of my friends from Michigan whom I knew through my music connections, walked in front of a train two years ago.

It was pretty bizarre to me that someone could do that, knowing the carnage.

He said goodbye to everyone via his MySpace page. Pretty gruesome.
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I was reading an article a few weeks back about a husband and wife who are both subway drivers for the TTC, and they both had people jump in front of their trains a month apart. They were both completely torn up over it and having nightmares and the whole bit. We talk about the effect of suicide on friends and family - which is bad enough - but purposely dragging other innocent people into it. UGH!

Shitty.
 
RogueJuror
Would distancing your self from your loved ones and then say a couple of months, years later, doing it would be consider less selfish? Like an act of minimizing the damage?
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I'm not sure. I am of the opinion that suicide is rationale. He was in a lot of pain...he had periods of sobriety but also seemed to get kicked in the balls, most notable when his sponsor slept with his girlfriend.

My brother was very reckless. My parents often say it is better he ended this way then wind up paralyzed or killing someone else. He was a good person...I honestly will never have peace as the day that happened my life ended as did my parents. No longer a brother. I only hope it made me a better person.
 
InTheHole
I'm not sure. I am of the opinion that suicide is rationale. He was in a lot of pain...he had periods of sobriety but also seemed to get kicked in the balls, most notable when his sponsor slept with his girlfriend.

My brother was very reckless. My parents often say it is better he ended this way then wind up paralyzed or killing someone else. He was a good person...I honestly will never have peace as the day that happened my life ended as did my parents. No longer a brother. I only hope it made me a better person.
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hmm, powerful statement. :hattip:
 
reno cool
hmm, powerful statement. :hattip:
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A lot of people have a problem with that and I suppose I would to...

We really define ourselves by our circumstances. Everything that happened to me up to that point was within the context of an individual from that perspective. A brother who dealt with everything associated with growing up in a family with a SEVERE alcoholic. Developmentally a big hurdle to navigate both individually and for the family...and then WHAM

Everything changed.

You either move on or blame, perhaps both. But to say things just "change" is an understatement. It's an unnatural thing to experience...especially for a parent.
 
It seems most people have had this touch their life and everyone handles it differently.

Mudcat, I am taking care of myself. I actually just started therapy because the effects are catching up with me. I've always been a bit of a doormat, but I have developed this overwhelming fear of fighting with my loved ones. I try so hard to make others happy that somewhere along the way I lost any hint of a backbone and much of my sense of self. I'm working on it. I have other traumas to work through as well. I joke that my life is one long string of after school specials. I've pretty much dealt with it all.

I know it's hard to put yourself in another person's shoes, but I am my mother's daughter. I have the same issues she does with depression and anxiety. For her, the depression is the main problem, for me it's the anxiety. I know all too well the feeling of complete and utter hopelessness. When I start to feel that way, I reach out. I call my friends and family....and now I've decided to get into therapy so I don't have those downward spirals anymore. I'm all too aware what can happen when you ignore those feelings or let them fester. For me, I will always believe that it is a selfish act. The simplest way I can put it is causing others pain just to ease your own is selfish. I'm not talking about the terminally ill. Yes, it is the person's choice, but IMO it is a selfish choice to make. I feel like you owe it to the people who have loved and supported you for years to at least try to get help. You can walk into any hospital and get yourself admitted if you are feeling suicidal. They will set you up with an aftercare plan once your stay is over. I think if 95% of the people who have committed suicide had just reached out for help, they would see that their problems were not so severe that they need to end their life. This is all just my opinion. I'm not trying to argue, just explain so I don't come off as completely heartless.

FWIW, I spoke with Ken about what happened to my mom and he seemed to agree that it was selfish....that's one of the reasons I am so shocked and saddened by this. I just can't believe he would do that. I know how much he loved his family. What could have been so horrible that he would cause them so much pain? They left notes, but never said why they did it. The least they could have done is tell their family why. Sorry, I'm in my anger stage of mourning right now. Ken was always so generous with his time and insight with me. He made me feel like family even though I never spoke to him other than forums and email. I just don't get how he could come to this decision and there's not doubt in my mind that it was the wrong one. He obviously planned this, just like my mom did. I can't even describe how bad it hurts to look back on conversations I had with her and know that she was planning to die the whole time. Makes me sick to my stomach. I'll stop now. I'm just getting more and more pissed off. I hate to be pissed at the dead, but that's where I'm at right now and I refuse to bottle it up.
 
Powerful Swedie. As hard as this can be sometimes, it is helpful to remember that the things people do, the way they act goes beyond our interactions with them. No one (there are exceptions) takes pleasure in being a jerk or hurting others...it has nothing to do with us...it came from another place...and that's the way they are.

Your mom is/was very sick. It's easy to take it personal but she sounds like a woman who has gone through a lot of pain, believe it or not before you were even born. I'm sure she wanted to be a better mother, you were really dealt a shitty hand but you still got to play it...and no doubt about it I'd tell her still has to act like an adult if she wants to be part of your life.

I'm not sure where you can find the forgiveness perhaps accepting is enough.
 
Oh, I've forgiven my mom, but I'll never forget. I will never get that image out of my head. I will never forget her cackling as the EMTs took her away. I will never forget the awful things she said to me when she was at her worst.

I have a great relationship with her now. It was tough growing up. I was in high school before I realized that it's not normal for my mom to sleep all day. She never really came to any of my sporting events or chorus concerts. She missed my Jr High graduation. I basically got to do whatever I wanted in high school...which would probably be why I barely graduated. Just once, it would have been nice if she had caught me and punished me for breaking curfew. I honestly felt like she didn't care and I struggle with those feeling to this day. I know she was sick, but it still hurts. The rational part of me knows that it has nothing to do with me. But she ruled my brother and sister with an iron fist when they were that age. She was broken already by the time I needed her. My sister used to bitch about how I got do so much more than she did. She has no idea how bad I WISHED my mom gave me some rules...or support...or attention. Thank god I have the best dad in the world, or I would not have made it.

Today she is on the proper meds. They finally diagnosed her as bi-polar and started treating her as such and she has improved a lot. She still has her moments. She missed me finding my wedding dress last weekend because she was "had a sinus thing". But, she's living with my sister and gets to spend a lot of time with her grandkids. Taking care of them and helping out around the house makes her feel like she has a purpose. But, she'll never work again. She's on disability. She can't handle it. She'll probably never live on her own again (I'm hoping to either build her an apartment above the garage or buy a bigger house in the next few years so I can take her off my sister's hands for a while). She's better, but she'll never be the same again...none of us will. Still, I love her more than anything. She's my mommy. She's my best friend. Everything this week has just stirred up a lot of emotions for me. I can't help but think about the fact that I'm getting married in a year and if I had burst in that door 10 seconds later, my mom wouldn't be here to see it. The thought breaks my heart. Like I said in my other post something was looking out for my family that day.

I know for a fact that when she decided to take her own life she thought she was doing us all a favor. I assume that's how many people in her position feel. My point is: she was wrong. If Ken thought he was doing his family a favor, he was wrong. I guess it's hard to explain how I feel about it. I don't think people do it for selfish reasons, but I do feel that it a selfish act. Even my mo knows that.
 
Bread
Mr X me neither. And I'm ok with that.
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Same here. Shrink's story shook me up and I never even met the guy. Hell, I didn't even like much of what I knew of him through Forumville.

But any suicide makes me mad. Being an atheist, I don't see the point of wanting to fade away into nothingness. Pain or misery seems much better than nothingness (unless you're being tortured 24/7 by a bunch of terrorists or something.)
 
Swedie, when I heard about the Shrink I was experiencing the same thoughts. It sounds like things are slowly turning around for you and your mother. The side effects alone from the combination of anti-psychotics, anti-depressants, anxiolytics, and mood stabilizers can be pretty severe. In retrospect, it sounds like her psychiatrist didn't know what he was doing as there is a point where a patient needs more than just a 20 minute medication monitoring appointment or a consult over the phone. Issues such as drug/alcohol abuse and non-compliance are always a problem.

It's nice to hear you were able to move past such a brutal experience. Reading your account makes me very angry and I don't know either of you so hat's off for being able to not let that burden you. I can't even imagine what the Shrink was thinking. I read that last post that night and it stuck me weird even though I don't know him...it's so easy to just check in even when your on vacation as a site owner but then again there have been rumors that he had plans to sell the site. It's all quite fascinating because it is novel. The idea that these two had a conversation which by any account would be quite taboo. I don't know if this is confirmed but I heard they took both their dogs with them...I don't quite understand that. What a cruel world we live in.

Anyways, thanks for your candidness...and congratulations on the marriage. Take it easy as even though that is a happy time you leave yourself and other open for a ton of stress if you let it get to you. Enjoy yourself and be well.
 
I knew one other person who committed suicide. I think there is a lesson in her story.

I went to AA in the early 90's and that's where I met her. She was a newbie who really took to the fellowship and started to change her life.

She had issues with depression. It is very common among alcoholics. What is difficult to know at first is whether the depression is caused by the alcohol - which is a depressant - or there is an underlying biological depression (and perhaps the alcohol was a form of self-medication).

There are people like me who have been diagnosed with clinical depression who discover after the drugs/alcohol are removed (and the post acute withdrawal has been gotten through) that we are fine. No depression. No meds required. Good.

In talking about that effect, there are people who assume that their situation applies to everyone and they get preachy and strident about how people who take anti-depressants are basically cheating and need to get off them like they did.

Heather took that to heart. She loved AA and didn't want to be cheating. She decided to get off her anti-depressants. Except I guess she really did suffer from depression and need the meds because she jumped off an 11th floor balcony.
 
Mudcat
I knew one other person who committed suicide. I think there is a lesson in her story.

I went to AA in the early 90's and that's where I met her. She was a newbie who really took to the fellowship and started to change her life.

She had issues with depression. It is very common among alcoholics. What is difficult to know at first is whether the depression is caused by the alcohol - which is a depressant - or there is an underlying biological depression (and perhaps the alcohol was a form of self-medication).

There are people like me who have been diagnosed with clinical depression who discover after the drugs/alcohol are removed (and the post acute withdrawal has been gotten through) that we are fine. No depression. No meds required. Good.

In talking about that effect, there are people who assume that their situation applies to everyone and they get preachy and strident about how people who take anti-depressants are basically cheating and need to get off them like they did.

Heather took that to heart. She loved AA and didn't want to be cheating. She decided to get off her anti-depressants. Except I guess she really did suffer from depression and need the meds because she jumped off an 11th floor balcony.
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Ack.
 
dark thread

anyways when i click on the ?enjoythego.com thread it get this

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